Redemptive Violence & the Kingdom of God

Recently I received one of those forwards from a brother that says basically republicans are good democrats are evil, if it wasn't for Clinton and his cronies the world would be safe. Once the person found out that the forward wasn't true to the facts they quickly sent out an apology for forwarding it along.
I don't really care about the forward itself. What bothers me is how the church has largely bought into this myth of redemptive violence. Below is an excerpt from our exchange.

My Reply to the original forward:

...Help me here I really struggle with the emails that deal with killing our enemies. I mean if the 1st church had the mindset of killing the terrorists we would not have a huge chunk of the New Testament…after all, Saul of Tarsus was a terrorist.

Their Response:

These two scriptures deal with the issue. There's probably more. Of course, they'd have to be read in context.
LUK 22:36 And He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it along, likewise also a bag, and let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one.
ROM 13:4 for it (government or rulers) is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil.

This statement offers to totally confuse and misrepresent the present terrorist threat: "after all, Saul of Tarsus was a terrorist."
Can you look at the terrorist atrocities over the past 30-40 years and seriously relate them to Saul's work as an ignorant Jew? Was he part of a world wide effort to bring all on the earth into submission to their false god and religion or murder them to bring glory to that god?
Further, you must believe that the God who is described by his actions and judgments as seen in the Mosaic Covenant is a different God from the other two members of the trinity? "If you've seen the Father, you've seen me, should be accurate if stated If you've seen the Father, you've seem me" should Jesus say that. I and the Father are one. So, then why not believe he would want us to totally annihilate two cities in Japan, for instance, if that would result in saving many more lives in Japan and those who are going to invade and stop their madness?

My Response:

...To be clear my contention is not with the country or our government but the church. Wars will happen. How does the church respond to war and violence? This is one of those subjects that I believe we can't be silent about because it cuts to the heart of the "kingdom" Jesus told us to pray for to come on Earth as it is in heaven. It's a kingdom that He says we can have now. When I read the sermon on the mount I see a glimpse into this kingdom…blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God, pray for those who persecute you, do no resist an evil person, love your enemy, offer the other cheek, if they want your tunic give them your cloak as well. Then you will be sons of the Most High because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

Am I only to love my enemy in the kingdom that is to come? It doesn't seem to me like there will be much need for me to love my enemy beyond the grave.

According to Jesus at what point do we stop loving our enemies and start retaliating? Jesus didn't retaliate but asked that they would be forgiven. Stephen didn't retaliate but asked that his murder wouldn't be held against them. Is there a place in the New Testament when we see the church picking up the sword? Is there a time in church history where we see the church RIGHTLY picking up the sword? The crusades but for sure that wasn't led by the Spirit. Remember when James and John wanted to call down fire on the city that didn't accept Jesus? Jesus rebuked them harshly. That is not the kingdom He was ushering in.

When I look at Acts as well as church history, when persecution happens the church didn't rally, centralize, and stand their ground but instead they dispersed and spread out carrying the gospel of a new kingdom with them.

If the kingdom is "love your friends, forgive only those who ask for it, destroy your enemies" how are we any different than the rest of the world? Because we do it in the name of the real God? Please no!

The kingdom we are a part of is different than the kingdoms of this world right?

It's a kingdom where love triumphs over evil, light pierces the darkness, life defeats death, grass pierces concrete, the lion lays with the lamb, and swords are beat into ploughshares. It's a kingdom where we walk in a scandalous grace that doesn't make sense to the world or to me. Because of this grace we learn there are things worth dying for but nothing worth killing for. Love triumphs not violence.

Violence only begets more violence. Jesus said this when he said, "Who ever lives by the sword dies by the sword." By the way He said this shortly after He said "sell a robe and buy a sword". And if I may digress even further in looking at commentaries by John Wesley, Mathew Henry, and Adam Clarke they all point to this verse as being a figure of speech and not to be taken literal. The spirit bears witness to this as well if the verse is taken in context. The disciples are excited and say here is a couple of swords to which Jesus responds ENOUGH! (that's not what I am talking about). The disciples as well as all the Jews always expected the warrior Messiah that was going to stand up against evil not the one who was going to defeat evil by not resisting it…that's why they could never understand his words about the cross. Peter was ready to die with Jesus but he was expecting a battle. When Jesus went quietly with his enemies Pete got confused.

When will we see the myth of redemptive violence for what it is? A myth, a trap, the way of the world. How can we possibly teach our kids to turn the other cheek while we support dropping a bomb on those who supposedly threaten us?

In response to your questions, do I believe that Saul was as bad as the terrorists today? How do we even begin to rate evil? Saul was an infamous terrorist for sure. From Paul's own pen he says of himself, "He was the worst of sinners." "The least of the apostles, and "I do not even deserve to be called an apostle because I persecuted the church". With a zeal for God he killed and approved of the killing of Christians. Make no mistake he wanted to rid the earth of people who followed Jesus and took pride in his efforts. Think about it. In a time when there was no internet, newspapers, or 6 o'clock news Saul's reputation preceded him. Even when he was converted, the church was still afraid of him and thought it was a trap. If Osama would announce tomorrow that he is a born again follower of Jesus what would we do? We would be skeptical at best and rightfully so.

If I understand your last question correctly I think you are basically asking me if I believe that the Father of Jesus is the same God of the Mosaic Covenant. Of course I do, He doesn't change. I don't begin to claim I understand all the ways and thoughts of our Father. He is the divine mystery. But I do know that, while He doesn't change, because of the cross, the way He can relate to all of us changed dramatically.
Do I believe He would have us drop the bomb on Japan, Iraq or anywhere else…no. He is God of the universe not just America. We have brothers and sisters who are dying over there at the hands of our government. This should grieve us deeply. We claim to be pro-life. Are we pro ALL life or just some? If Germany would decide tomorrow to bomb America because of the 3 million babies a year we murder in the name of free choice would we the church support them and say they are stopping the madness? Certainly not! As much as I detest abortion I know that killing the doctors as well as the innocent isn't the answer.

This isn't the easy way it's the narrow road. After all does it take more courage to fight our enemy or to love them?